Skip to main content
Due to maintenance, some parts of the ACEVO website won’t be available on Wednesday 27 March, from 7–9am.
For urgent requests please email info@acevo.org.uk

Race Equity Series, session two: reporting and responding to ethnic pay disparities

Feature: with guest practitioner Zoe Kabir

Zoe Kabir was one of the speakers at our second Race Equity Series session (if you missed the session, you can watch the recording and download the companion notes). In this Q&A, she talks about her work and her views on anti-racist action in civil society.

What brought you to this work?

I have always been passionate about equity and inclusion. Having seen BLM and Covid highlighting the impact of inequalities in the health system plus of course having my family be impacted by inequalities, I wanted do more and make more of a difference for people that really really needed it. I think I’ve been having conversations about inequity and have been active in a number of inclusion spaces for 30 years and I knew I had to do more, so I moved formally into a EDI role last year.

I can’t think of anything more important to our future society than ensuring equity for everyone and truly enjoying living in a diverse world. If we can get that right we can work together to fix anything!

What is important about reporting and responding to ethnic pay disparities?

It’s an indicator of how systemic bias and racism plays out in society and within our organisations. If we do not value, we do not pay! It’s a reflection of what our societal and organisational values are and in a number of cases reflective of wider systemic issues around culture, education and earning potential. This is often impacted by other intersectional impacts such as class, sexuality, age and so on. If we do not understand how systemic racism shows up at work then we cannot address it.

There has been a lot of talk about doing better on anti-racism in civil society. Why is progress sometimes so slow and painful?

I think it’s about power and history. When a system works in favour of certain group while disadvantaging others, those in power are often reluctant to make changes that might diminish their own privilege. This reluctance is deeply rooted in historical structures of inequality that have been maintained and reinforced over generations.

Progress on anti-racism is slow and painful because it challenges these entrenched systems and requires not just individual but systemic change. It involves confronting uncomfortable truths about privilege, power dynamics, and the long-standing impacts of colonialism, slavery, and segregation. Plus, societal change is often met with resistance, both overt and covert, from those who benefit from the status quo. This resistance shows up  in various ways, from outright denial of racism’s existence to more subtle forms of obstruction. Such as tokenistic measures give the appearance of progress without addressing the root causes of inequality.

Genuine progress requires sustained effort and a willingness to engage in difficult conversations and actions. It demands that individuals and institutions reflect on their roles in perpetuating systemic racism and commit to making meaningful changes. This is often uncomfortable and challenging, which can make the pace of progress feel frustratingly slow.

Tell us about a time when you’ve felt that you’ve really managed to move things forwards on anti-racism? What enabled the movement? 

I think for me it was through representation. I made a commitment to go into the uncomfortable spaces in the organisations I worked for and drive change by positive and constructive challenge. I wanted to use being me as an advantage as a positive. Instead of spending time and energy conforming or adapting I would spend that energy actively listening, talking, and challenging.

It then became about forming connections to individuals who were change makers and openly working towards having conversations about language such as bias, micro-aggressions and power.

Then the work of structural changes such as policies reviews, equity by design development, and intersectional awareness begin. It’s an inside out approach and definitely not for everyone, but it does have impact and has I hoped made a difference people in the organisation.

How can we ensure that Black and Minoritised Ethnic people are central to transformation on anti-racism and race equity in civil society but not left exposed and bearing the load?

I think this involves a few key steps.

I believe in the importance of shared leadership and decision-making. It’s essential that Black and Minoritised Ethnic individuals are not just included but are truly empowered to shape policies and strategies. However, this empowerment should come with a balanced distribution of responsibility, ensuring that they are not left to carry the weight of these efforts alone. Everyone needs to be committed to this work, not just those directly affected by racism. Each sector of society has its part to play, but in terms of setting out a vision for the society we want that is central government. We need to have clear policies and checks and balances in place which enable and drive an anti racist agenda fixed on delivering equity to all.

That leads me on to allyship, as I feel that allyship and accountability are crucial. Allies, especially those in government, positions of influence and leadership, need to step up and take on some of the burden of anti-racism work. They should be actively supporting and amplifying the voices of Black and Minoritised Ethnic people, and create spaces of innovation and transformation to drive changes to the wider systems such as education, financial, government, business, health etc.

We need to focus on long-term structural changes rather than short-term initiatives. Ensure that anti-racism and race equity efforts are embedded in the core mission, values, and operations of civil society organisations, rather than being treated as side projects!!

What resources do you recommend watching/reading/listening to in order to strengthen practice?

Loads… on a personal level I loved; Natives: Race and Class in the Ruins of Empire by Akala

I also would recommend; Inclusalytics- How Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion Leaders Use Data to Drive Their Work

More about how to change; Indirect Work: A Regenerative Change Theory for Businesses, Communities, Institutions and Humans

Also a absolutely fascinating read; Braiding Sweetgrass: Indigenous Wisdom, Scientific Knowledge and the Teachings of Plants

What words of wisdom would you have for those doing this work who may be earlier on in their anti-racist practice or who may have seen institutional resistance to change? 

Read, listen question and challenge your own thinking first. Find the cracks to the leavers of influence. Sometimes its starting with something small that makes the biggest changes. If there is resistance to change, don’t call it change. Find other paths to get to the same goal. Plan ahead, have a strategy and always, always have a plan B.

Share this

Not an ACEVO member?

If you have any queries please email info@acevo.org.uk
or call 020 7014 4600.

This website uses cookies to improve your experience. Privacy & cookie policy

The cookie settings on this website are set to "allow cookies" to give you the best browsing experience possible. If you continue to use this website without changing your cookie settings or you click "Accept" below then you are consenting to this.

Close